I recall being on an ethics panel in the AF (WPAFB) - I think it was AMRL (but that's 40 yrs ago). A butter bar wanted to do an experiment on 1000 male rats which had been performed for decades. It involved twisting the testes of the rats. It ultimately would result in killing them all. I spoke up and asked what he expected to find that the previous 30 yrs had not discovered. He couldn't answer and I voted no on the experiment. A bird colonel said that he saw no reason to "waste" 1000 rats, and suggested only 100 rats. Needless to say, I was removed from the ethics panel.
The butter bar and colonel should have been removed, and not just from the panel. Killing wild rats carrying disease, attacking small children in tenements, etc. is one thing. Killing lab rats for the thrill of it should have been grounds for a dishonorable plus mandated psychotherapy for sociopathy.
You'd be sending half of the military to courts martial (slight exaggeration). They found another chaplain who had no trouble "looking the other way". I cannot recall what the experiment was to prove - but in my way of thinking, the "science" was stupid.
I only came close a couple of times, on or off duty, but I know I'd find dropping bad guys (including terrorists/jihadis) a whole lot easier than innocent animals.
I once saw a lot of that, too. The IACUCS were worse that worthless and existed to pay well-connected people, including veterinarians, to grease the regulatory skids for every stupid experiment the researchers could dream up while convincing the public that the animals were being protected as much as humanly possible.
Let’s see if DOGE can find my if the billions in glaring waste being shoveled into the incinerators (literally) in the animal torture dungeons. I doubt it. See the new boss? Same as the old boss, as far as the animal victims are concerned.
The UK name for this committee has the word "ethics" in it. I doubt they know what it means. In case they are reading, it means character, morals, principles, and values.
And people wonder why there’s not enough $ to repair bridges & roads, update our electrical grid, maintain existing buildings,….on and on. The world has become a damned sick place.
Research grants have become a form of money laundering … elite universities are especially to blame- a way to enrich universities with that sweet sweet federal money …
It’s gotta stop.
We need common sense today…. Not ‘book smarts’…
my mother calls these people, ‘educated idiots’ … and she’s 100% right!!
I've read that animal studies and sacrifice of 50 thousand animals year actually provide little if any meaningful data relevant to humans, because their animals and are zero likeness in any way or form to humans, the old " but it worked in the test tubes, and the rats only died a little bit " I'd rather trust an Igor, or igorina, at least they don't lie, aNd know instinctively when it's pitchfork time.
Every animal research outcome must be tested or verified in some way on humans, to find out if it’s valid. Most outcomes vary by species, and most animals bused in research experiments are highly inbred to provide relative uniformity of response.
Humans, in contrast, are extremely outbred. That’s one reason why something that may be a raging success in, say, Balb/C mice, might have a low success rate in people - because most people
Might not have the same enzymatic or phosphorylation pathway, or whatever, that the mice do.
If you need a simple way to think about this, consider that if chocolate (cacao) had been safety tested on dogs, it would have been declared a dangerous substance because to most dogs, theobroma, our “love drug”, is poisonous. And people like me would have died of a heavy overdose a very long time ago 😂😂😂
A lot of times now it’s watching development of gastruloids and organoids from embryonic stem cells from mice. It’s not all useless. People just create questions introducing socio-political labels into the lab sphere.
We have too many demented research scientists at universities who somehow manage to get funding from a morally bankrupt NIH. It’s been going on for decades. It would be phenomenally decent if someone at NIH or HHS would stop funding all the nonsense science.
I think mice don't want to be the other gender. With that I also think any crude experiment that you would perform on them would not give you reliable results.
Their bodies would probally try to fight it and just the shit we put other animals through is unbelievable. It will never stop. Our government, professionals, and just humans in general can be so sick.
I care. I care about animal welfarea. I would not cheer on these experiments on my cats or my dogs. In conclusion, mice or monkeys also should not be made to be guinea pigs for our disgusting way of thinking.
These people are Josef Mengele level psychopaths. Seriously.
Send em all to Gitmo!!!
I’m disgusted that these experiments were done. I’m not a fan of rodents but this is just cruel.
Biden did nothing but eat ice cream and poop his pants. But somebody did do those other things. Find out who they are
Cruel and useless
That image of the mice is like a Mengele experiment. Mice have feelings too.
I recall being on an ethics panel in the AF (WPAFB) - I think it was AMRL (but that's 40 yrs ago). A butter bar wanted to do an experiment on 1000 male rats which had been performed for decades. It involved twisting the testes of the rats. It ultimately would result in killing them all. I spoke up and asked what he expected to find that the previous 30 yrs had not discovered. He couldn't answer and I voted no on the experiment. A bird colonel said that he saw no reason to "waste" 1000 rats, and suggested only 100 rats. Needless to say, I was removed from the ethics panel.
The butter bar and colonel should have been removed, and not just from the panel. Killing wild rats carrying disease, attacking small children in tenements, etc. is one thing. Killing lab rats for the thrill of it should have been grounds for a dishonorable plus mandated psychotherapy for sociopathy.
You'd be sending half of the military to courts martial (slight exaggeration). They found another chaplain who had no trouble "looking the other way". I cannot recall what the experiment was to prove - but in my way of thinking, the "science" was stupid.
I only came close a couple of times, on or off duty, but I know I'd find dropping bad guys (including terrorists/jihadis) a whole lot easier than innocent animals.
I once saw a lot of that, too. The IACUCS were worse that worthless and existed to pay well-connected people, including veterinarians, to grease the regulatory skids for every stupid experiment the researchers could dream up while convincing the public that the animals were being protected as much as humanly possible.
Let’s see if DOGE can find my if the billions in glaring waste being shoveled into the incinerators (literally) in the animal torture dungeons. I doubt it. See the new boss? Same as the old boss, as far as the animal victims are concerned.
The UK name for this committee has the word "ethics" in it. I doubt they know what it means. In case they are reading, it means character, morals, principles, and values.
Which they haven't a clue about, and don't possess.
What is ‘butter bar’?
Sorry - that would be a 2nd Lieutenant (lowest commissioned officer). I was a Captain.
Thanks, Dave. I figured it was military lingo. I used to be an Air Force wife (now wife of a retired Army soldier), but I didn’t know that one.
I want all of my fucking taxes back for all the years I gave the fucking government my money
Been saying just that since oblahbla…
Someone else I know said that
.
My favorite parts of Covid:
#200
We are done with modern medicine;
we’re done with these fools for doctors; and we are done with the pile of shit they dove themselves into.
Let them study that.
.
Hey Thomas…YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN AND LOUDER!❤️
And people wonder why there’s not enough $ to repair bridges & roads, update our electrical grid, maintain existing buildings,….on and on. The world has become a damned sick place.
You ain’t seen nothing yet. Read 2 Timothy 3.
?
Research grants have become a form of money laundering … elite universities are especially to blame- a way to enrich universities with that sweet sweet federal money …
It’s gotta stop.
We need common sense today…. Not ‘book smarts’…
my mother calls these people, ‘educated idiots’ … and she’s 100% right!!
I've read that animal studies and sacrifice of 50 thousand animals year actually provide little if any meaningful data relevant to humans, because their animals and are zero likeness in any way or form to humans, the old " but it worked in the test tubes, and the rats only died a little bit " I'd rather trust an Igor, or igorina, at least they don't lie, aNd know instinctively when it's pitchfork time.
Every animal research outcome must be tested or verified in some way on humans, to find out if it’s valid. Most outcomes vary by species, and most animals bused in research experiments are highly inbred to provide relative uniformity of response.
Humans, in contrast, are extremely outbred. That’s one reason why something that may be a raging success in, say, Balb/C mice, might have a low success rate in people - because most people
Might not have the same enzymatic or phosphorylation pathway, or whatever, that the mice do.
If you need a simple way to think about this, consider that if chocolate (cacao) had been safety tested on dogs, it would have been declared a dangerous substance because to most dogs, theobroma, our “love drug”, is poisonous. And people like me would have died of a heavy overdose a very long time ago 😂😂😂
A lot of times now it’s watching development of gastruloids and organoids from embryonic stem cells from mice. It’s not all useless. People just create questions introducing socio-political labels into the lab sphere.
Yes, it IS all WORSE THAN useless.
I’m someone who believes every single bio lab should be defunded and destroyed. As of yesterday. They’re all damn evil.
Arrest them and experiment on them. That is what they have earned.
We have too many demented research scientists at universities who somehow manage to get funding from a morally bankrupt NIH. It’s been going on for decades. It would be phenomenally decent if someone at NIH or HHS would stop funding all the nonsense science.
The demented-puppet’s handlers did many vile things with their stooge.
As we peel back the onion, the stench is going to become ALMOST unbearable.
We the People must have a full account…JFK, 9/11, Epstein, Bidum, the DoJ/FBI,…
Like an infected wound we must drain the infection.
DJT, Musk, Bondi, Kash, Bongino, Treasury, OMB…THE FULL MONTY!
Wasn’t there a gender divide in the early days of Covid novel infection deaths?
What's Your Thinking
I think mice don't want to be the other gender. With that I also think any crude experiment that you would perform on them would not give you reliable results.
Their bodies would probally try to fight it and just the shit we put other animals through is unbelievable. It will never stop. Our government, professionals, and just humans in general can be so sick.
Oh who cares?
I care. I care about animal welfarea. I would not cheer on these experiments on my cats or my dogs. In conclusion, mice or monkeys also should not be made to be guinea pigs for our disgusting way of thinking.
Jo, I think you misinterpreted my comment. I was referring to Hannah’s comment about ‘gender divide’.
Sorry, I thought you were trying to downplay or dismiss my comment about the sickness humans do to animals.
It’s all good :)